The Circa Joan & David brand name speaks of its heritage and quality, while the styling speaks of its sophistication and glamour. The line offers tailored pumps, sassy sandals, and everything in between. Sleek and confident, Circa Joan & David shoes put you in the center of finery. 1-48 of 59 results for "joan and david shoes" Results Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Easy Street Women's Cisca Pump 7 $5000 FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21 Joan & David Collection Women's Mimo Ankle-Strap Sandal 1 $24000 FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21 Prime Try Before You Buy Circa Joan & David Women's Davianna Boot 20Size: OS Joan & David. michellerj1102. NWT Joan and David 21” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. NWT. $85 $298. Size: OS Joan & David. 0094namsn. 51. Joan & David Quilted Camouflage Weekend Duffle Bag Travel BRAND NEW Retails $200.Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david sandals from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.Joan & David Black Quilted Nylon Travel Bag - Gym Tote - Diaper Bag. $70 $190. NWT Joan and David 22” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. $137 $228. NEW $205 Joan & David 21” Diamond Quilted Velvet Duffle. $150 $205. Joan & David backpack‎ black multi-pocket nylon with carry handle. $115.Charles admitted to killing Bret, Joan, and David, but he said he was not the one behind the tapes. It didn't take Jughead too long after that to realize Jellybean was the only person with enough ...Nov 27, 2022 · Joan & David Black Quilted Nylon Travel Bag - Gym Tote - Diaper Bag. $70 $190. NWT Joan and David 22” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. $137 $228. NEW $205 Joan & David 21” Diamond Quilted Velvet Duffle. $150 $205. Joan & David backpack‎ black multi-pocket nylon with carry handle. $115. Joan and David Biege Suede Ballet Flats Shoes Slip Ons Leather Toe Tips Size 7 M (203) $ 15.75. Add to Favorites Vintage 90s Circa by Joan and David Brown Leather ... Women's Pearly Light Natural Patent Pump. 54. $3995. FREE delivery Jul 18 - 20. Or fastest delivery Jul 17 - 19. Shop Joan And David Shoes at Bloomingdales.com. Free Shipping and Free Returns available, or buy online and pick up in store! GET YOUR ORDER TODAY with Curbside or In-Store Pickup, or Same Day Delivery.Vintage 1980s Joan and David western Whiskey deep brown leather snakeskin print chain harness heel strap stirrup cowboy boots Italy 38 (977) Sale Price $76.00 $ 76.00Joan & David Black Nylon Travel Backpack Large Bag. $35. NWT Joan & David navy Blue / Camel 21" Chevron Quilted Nylon Roll Travel Duffle. $185. Joan and David leather handbag. $33. Joan & David Black Genuine Leather Shoulder Hobo Bag. $40. Joan & David Brown Leather Backpack.the original Joan and David had fabulous shoes, however they went bankrupt. I still own several pairs from golly 20 years ago, and a couple I still wear. Circa Joan and David is the new Joan and David, however, not the same quality.Buy Joan & David Women's Diamond Quilted Frame Work Travel Weekender Backpack with 15.6 Inch Laptop Sleeve (Black) and other Backpacks at Amazon.com. Our wide selection is eligible for free shipping and free returns.Vintage 1980s Joan and David western Whiskey deep brown leather snakeskin print chain harness heel strap stirrup cowboy boots Italy 38 (977) Sale Price $76.00 $ 76.00 Joan and David Biege Suede Ballet Flats Shoes Slip Ons Leather Toe Tips Size 7 M (203) $ 15.75. Add to Favorites Vintage 90s Circa by Joan and David Brown Leather ...Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david sandals from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.Circa Joan and David Shoes for Women. Circa Joan & David shoes for women were first marketed in the late 1960s when the label was launched by Joan and David Helpern. Joan Helpern sought to design shoes for women which differed from stiletto heels, gym shoes, or leather loafers. Joan And David Shoes Womens 9.5 B Slip On Loafer Pumps Burgundy Leather Heels. $22.99. $6.99 shipping. or Best Offer. SPONSORED. Joan & David Sz 6.5 Pumps Patent ...9 reviews of Joan and David Estate Sales "Joan is wonderful and a pleasure to do business. She and her team make it effortless and relieve the seller from all responsibilities in having an estate sale. They set up so things look terrific, price, and even help in getting rid of anything that does not sell.Women's IN3 Suede Chunky-HI Block High Heels Closed Pointed Toe Pumps Dress Office Shoes for Women. 1,289. 50+ bought in past month. $3499. List: $39.99. Save 10% with coupon (some sizes/colors) FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21. SHOP NOW Joan & David captures timeless fashion for the individual who values quality and style. View our new line of totes, bags, and backpacks! SHOP NOW Brand Timeline What started with a simple oxford, has evolved into a philosophy that holds true today—to design for women who run through airports.Joan And David Shoes Womens 9.5 B Slip On Loafer Pumps Burgundy Leather Heels. $22.99. $6.99 shipping. or Best Offer. SPONSORED. Joan & David Sz 6.5 Pumps Patent ... Joan & David Black Nylon Travel Backpack Large Bag. $35. NWT Joan & David navy Blue / Camel 21" Chevron Quilted Nylon Roll Travel Duffle. $185. Joan and David leather handbag. $33. Joan & David Black Genuine Leather Shoulder Hobo Bag. $40. Joan & David Brown Leather Backpack.Diamond Quilted Nylon Workbook Backpack - Green. From Gilt. Out of stock. $49.95. Joan & David. Diamond Quilted Nylon Workbook Backpack - Blue. From Shop Premium Outlets. Out of stock. $59.99.9 reviews of Joan and David Estate Sales "Joan is wonderful and a pleasure to do business. She and her team make it effortless and relieve the seller from all responsibilities in having an estate sale. They set up so things look terrific, price, and even help in getting rid of anything that does not sell.Womens Dress Pumps Ballet Chunky Heels for Women Round Toe Mid Square Block Heels Soft Slip On Pumps Shoes for Office Lady Dancer Wedding Shoes Youth 2inch. 296. Save 9%. $4199. Typical: $45.99. Lowest price in 30 days. FREE delivery Wed, Sep 6.Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david wedges from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671. When police arrested Joan Shannon on July 30, 2002, her 15-year-old daughter was nowhere to be found. A couple days later, police found Elizabeth Shannon hiding under a bed in a trailer owned by one of her friends. Both mother and daughter were charged with the same crimes; first-degree murder and conspiracy to murder.Size: 9 Joan & David. jenniferal82. Joan & David Circa Comfort 365 DJKeyanna Black Leather Slip On Open Wedg…. $35 $99. Size: 8.5 Joan & David. yvonnesposhmark. 3. Nwot Circa Joan&David Walbridge Gold Slingback. $29 $89.Fashionable & Comfortable Backpack: Designed for women, this backpack features a quilted texture and gold-plated zippers for fashion, padding on the back, and adjustable, padded shoulder straps for comfort.Free shipping BOTH ways on circa joan and david wedges from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.Joan de Bethel. Joan and David de Bethel started making papier maché cats and bears in 1960. They were intricately made and quite expensive - each piece took at least a day just to paint. David died in 1977 and Joan took up an idea that they had been tossing around before his death; she got Rye Pottery to supply soft biscuit fired models, and ...Size: 9 Joan & David. jenniferal82. Joan & David Circa Comfort 365 DJKeyanna Black Leather Slip On Open Wedg…. $35 $99. Size: 8.5 Joan & David. yvonnesposhmark. 3. Nwot Circa Joan&David Walbridge Gold Slingback. $29 $89. Shop Joan And David Shoes at Bloomingdales.com. Free Shipping and Free Returns available, or buy online and pick up in store! GET YOUR ORDER TODAY with Curbside or In-Store Pickup, or Same Day Delivery. Vintage Joan and David Cream Mary Jane Flat butter leather slip on loafer shoes size 7/Designer Joan and David Loafer shoes (673) Sale Price $59.84 $ 59.84 Joan And David Shoes Womens 9.5 B Slip On Loafer Pumps Burgundy Leather Heels. $22.99. $6.99 shipping. or Best Offer. SPONSORED. Joan & David Sz 6.5 Pumps Patent ...The Circa Joan & David brand name speaks of its heritage and quality, while the styling speaks of its sophistication and glamour. The line offers tailored pumps, sassy sandals, and everything in between. Sleek and confident, Circa Joan & David shoes put you in the center of finery. Joan and David Biege Suede Ballet Flats Shoes Slip Ons Leather Toe Tips Size 7 M (203) $ 15.75. Add to Favorites Vintage 90s Circa by Joan and David Brown Leather ...Jun 11, 2020 · On May 3rd, 1951, Joan met fellow artist David de Bethel. They were engaged in 1953 and in 1955, their daughter Caroline was born. Joan and David started to work together throughout the 1960s on their de Bethel cats. David made them and Joan painted them. Joan passed away in October 2017 at the age of 93. David had passed decades earlier in 1977. Check out our joan and david shoes selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our boots shops.SHOP NOW Joan & David captures timeless fashion for the individual who values quality and style. View our new line of totes, bags, and backpacks! SHOP NOW Brand Timeline What started with a simple oxford, has evolved into a philosophy that holds true today—to design for women who run through airports. Size: OS Joan & David. michellerj1102. NWT Joan and David 21” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. NWT. $85 $298. Size: OS Joan & David. 0094namsn. 51. Joan & David Quilted Camouflage Weekend Duffle Bag Travel BRAND NEW Retails $200.Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david shoes from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.JOAN & DAVID Brown Leather Cowboy Snake Print Boots Made In Italy Sz 6 HLC. $30.00. $8.00 shipping. or Best Offer. Womens boots, made by Joan and David, Leather, Great Condition. Very Classy!! Dimensions: 9-7/8" L x 4-1/4" D x 6-1/2" H. GIFTABLE: With our signature gift packaging, this cosmetic bag is ready to gift for any occasion; anniversaries, holidays, birthdays, and more! TSA APPROVED: Each of our cosmetic bags comes with two 1.4 oz travel bottles. This convenient addition makes traveling a breeze.Joan & David Estate Sales Ballwin, MO 63011 (314) 504-7547 Company Memberships Message Company Have Feedback? Want to let the company know how they're doing? Feel free to leave feedback!Fashionable & Comfortable Backpack: Designed for women, this backpack features a quilted texture and gold-plated zippers for fashion, padding on the back, and adjustable, padded shoulder straps for comfort.Check out our joan and david selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our boots shops.80s Vintage Leather Pumps Joan and David Too Size 7.5 Business Classic Pumps. (176) $48.00. FREE shipping. Joan & David Couture Vintage Belgravia Lugg Crocodile Stack Heels. Size: 9 M.JOAN & DAVID Chelsea Styled Tan Suede Ankle Boots 7M EUC. $50 $200. Size: 7 Joan & David. jeans_n_coffee. Joan & David Shoes Womens 9 Heel Bootie Lace Up Fashion Platform Classic Pumps. $30 $129. Size: 9 Joan & David. redbeardco. New In Box Women’s Circa Joan & David Brown Suede Ankle Boots 7 M. Aug 12, 2011 · Joan Shannon and her daughter Elizabeth are serving their sentences in different prisons. They still disagree on whether Joan orchestrated the murder of David Shannon. This web exclusive is part ... David Dangle at home in Pennsylvania. Photograph courtesy of David Dangle. For those of you who shop QVC you probably already know David Dangle, CEO of Joan Rivers Worldwide. You may also know Gus, his whip smart, Smooth Fox Terrier, but did you know David Dangle had already made a name for himself before he and Joan started their phenomenally ...Womens Dress Pumps Ballet Chunky Heels for Women Round Toe Mid Square Block Heels Soft Slip On Pumps Shoes for Office Lady Dancer Wedding Shoes Youth 2inch. 296. Save 9%. $4199. Typical: $45.99. Lowest price in 30 days. FREE delivery Wed, Sep 6.Cook three cups of chicken sliced into little pieces into a large pot, until done. Add the cooked chicken, Alfredo sauce, and 1/2 cup of mozzarella, stir and spoon it into the center of the boats. Top that with the remaining mozzarella sauce. Bake for 20-25 minutes or until the zucchini is fork-tender.Circa Joan and David Sling Back Strap Adjustable Ankle Sandals Womens Size 10 M. $14.99. $12.45 shipping. SPONSORED. Women's 10 Circa Joan & David Wedge. $46.99. May 16, 2023 - Find great deals up to 70% off on pre-owned Joan & David Suede Shoes on Mercari. Save on a huge selection of new and used items — from fashion to toys, shoes to electronics.Women's IN3 Suede Chunky-HI Block High Heels Closed Pointed Toe Pumps Dress Office Shoes for Women. 1,289. 50+ bought in past month. $3499. List: $39.99. Save 10% with coupon (some sizes/colors) FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21. Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david wedges from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.80s Vintage Leather Pumps Joan and David Too Size 7.5 Business Classic Pumps. (176) $48.00. FREE shipping. Joan & David Couture Vintage Belgravia Lugg Crocodile Stack Heels. Size: 9 M.de Bethel, Joan. Joan and David de Bethel started making papier maché cats and bears in 1960. They were intricately made and quite expensive - each piece took at least a day just to paint. David died in 1977 and Joan took up an idea that they had been tossing around before his death; she got Rye Pottery to supply soft biscuit fired models, and ...Size: OS Joan & David. michellerj1102. NWT Joan and David 21” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. NWT. $85 $298. Size: OS Joan & David. 0094namsn. 51. Joan & David Quilted Camouflage Weekend Duffle Bag Travel BRAND NEW Retails $200. Dimensions: 9-7/8" L x 4-1/4" D x 6-1/2" H. GIFTABLE: With our signature gift packaging, this cosmetic bag is ready to gift for any occasion; anniversaries, holidays, birthdays, and more! TSA APPROVED: Each of our cosmetic bags comes with two 1.4 oz travel bottles. This convenient addition makes traveling a breeze. Check out our joan and david heels selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our pumps shops. Buy Joan & David Women's Diamond Quilted Frame Work Travel Weekender Backpack with 15.6 Inch Laptop Sleeve (Black) and other Backpacks at Amazon.com. Our wide selection is eligible for free shipping and free returns.Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david boots from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.Circa Joan and David Sling Back Strap Adjustable Ankle Sandals Womens Size 10 M. $14.99. $12.45 shipping. SPONSORED. Women's 10 Circa Joan & David Wedge. $46.99.Product Description. A Joan & David smooth diamond quilted 3-piece toiletry case. This toiletry case set is perfect for everyday use or as a gift due to its stylish gift wrap. Zippers and hardware are high quality and durable metal. While the bags are compact, the interior holds all your necessary items. The sturdy top handle makes traveling easy.Vintage 1980s Joan and David western Whiskey deep brown leather snakeskin print chain harness heel strap stirrup cowboy boots Italy 38 (990) Sale Price $71.25 $ 71.25 Dimensions: 9-7/8" L x 4-1/4" D x 6-1/2" H. GIFTABLE: With our signature gift packaging, this cosmetic bag is ready to gift for any occasion; anniversaries, holidays, birthdays, and more! TSA APPROVED: Each of our cosmetic bags comes with two 1.4 oz travel bottles. This convenient addition makes traveling a breeze.Fort Bragg, N.C. on July 23, 2002, and Special Forces Major David Shannon was found dead in his own bed, he’d been shot in the chest and head. Shannon was a computer specialist and lived in the ...Aug 12, 2011 · Joan Shannon and her daughter Elizabeth are serving their sentences in different prisons. They still disagree on whether Joan orchestrated the murder of David Shannon. This web exclusive is part ... Joan de Bethel. Joan and David de Bethel started making papier maché cats and bears in 1960. They were intricately made and quite expensive - each piece took at least a day just to paint. David died in 1977 and Joan took up an idea that they had been tossing around before his death; she got Rye Pottery to supply soft biscuit fired models, and ... Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david shoes from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671.80s Vintage Leather Pumps Joan and David Too Size 7.5 Business Classic Pumps. (176) $48.00. FREE shipping. Joan & David Couture Vintage Belgravia Lugg Crocodile Stack Heels. Size: 9 M.Diamond Quilted Nylon Workbook Backpack - Green. From Gilt. Out of stock. $49.95. Joan & David. Diamond Quilted Nylon Workbook Backpack - Blue. From Shop Premium Outlets. Out of stock. $59.99. Size: 6.5 Circa Joan and David. lyly585. 1. Circa Joan And David Leopard Calf Hair Kitten Heel Pumps Size 7M. $48 $120. Size: 7M Circa Joan And David. skygods89. Circa Joan & David Black Pointy Toe Heels Pumps. $39 $129.Circa Joan And David Sandals Womens 11M Gold Tan Slingback Block Heel. $22. Size: 11 Joan & David. everydaysoles. 💙 Circa Joan and David Dijon Patent Leather Croc Embossed Peep Toe Heels - 8.5. $25. Size: 8.5 Joan & David. jenniefantastic. 1.March 11, 2000 5:00am. Joan and David Helpern have put aside their feud long enough to agree on one thing — Chapter 11 bankruptcy for Joan & David Inc. The family-owned business was done in by ...Vintage 1980s Joan and David western Whiskey deep brown leather snakeskin print chain harness heel strap stirrup cowboy boots Italy 38 (990) Sale Price $71.25 $ 71.25 2. Joan & David Royal/White Woven Toiletry Bag. $37 $68. Size: OS Joan & David. cbednarek22. NWT Joan and David 22” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. NWT. $99 $228. Size: OS Joan & David.Circa Joan And David Sandals Womens 11M Gold Tan Slingback Block Heel. $22. Size: 11 Joan & David. everydaysoles. 💙 Circa Joan and David Dijon Patent Leather Croc Embossed Peep Toe Heels - 8.5. $25. Size: 8.5 Joan & David. jenniefantastic. 1.Check out our joan and david shoes for women selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our shops. Joan & David 90s Fabulous Equestrian Double Buckle Brown Leather Belt M. $59. Size: OS Joan & David. boutiquebypj. 16. Vintage Joan and David Leather Belt Womens Medium Brown Black Leather Wide. $30. Size: M Joan & David. secondsister.SHOP NOW Joan & David captures timeless fashion for the individual who values quality and style. View our new line of totes, bags, and backpacks! SHOP NOW Brand Timeline What started with a simple oxford, has evolved into a philosophy that holds true today—to design for women who run through airports. 1-48 of 59 results for "joan and david shoes" Results Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Easy Street Women's Cisca Pump 7 $5000 FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21 Joan & David Collection Women's Mimo Ankle-Strap Sandal 1 $24000 FREE delivery Fri, Jul 21 Prime Try Before You Buy Circa Joan & David Women's Davianna Boot 20Vintage Joan and David Brown Blouse 46/12. $17.00. $6.50 shipping. New Listing Vintage Joan & David Italian Virgin Wool Blazer Size 14 Tan Shacket . $75.00. $10.00 ...
de Bethel, Joan. Joan and David de Bethel started making papier maché cats and bears in 1960. They were intricately made and quite expensive - each piece took at least a day just to paint. David died in 1977 and Joan took up an idea that they had been tossing around before his death; she got Rye Pottery to supply soft biscuit fired models, and .... Tri cities craigslist cars and trucks by owner
On May 3rd, 1951, Joan met fellow artist David de Bethel. They were engaged in 1953 and in 1955, their daughter Caroline was born. Joan and David started to work together throughout the 1960s on their de Bethel cats. David made them and Joan painted them. Joan passed away in October 2017 at the age of 93. David had passed decades earlier in 1977.Joan and david patent leather kitten heels with cut out and bows. $40.00. $12.55 shipping. Vintage Joan & David Slip On with Black Faux Fur. $5.99. 0 bids. $8.25 ... Vintage 90s Joan and David Lace Up Boots/Joan & David/Italian Leather Boots/Cognac Leather Boots/Calf Height Boots/Size 6 to 6 and half. (77) $75.00. $100.00 (25% off) FREE shipping. Fashionable & Comfortable Backpack: Designed for women, this backpack features a quilted texture and gold-plated zippers for fashion, padding on the back, and adjustable, padded shoulder straps for comfort. Joan & David Estate Sales Ballwin, MO 63011 (314) 504-7547 Company Memberships Message Company Have Feedback? Want to let the company know how they're doing? Feel free to leave feedback!Joan Shannon and her daughter Elizabeth are serving their sentences in different prisons. They still disagree on whether Joan orchestrated the murder of David Shannon. This web exclusive is part ...4. Joan and David Sterla Black Suede Knee High Boots | Size 8. $65 $295. Size: 8 Joan and David. thatbestdress. 1. COPY - Circa Joan and David orange shoe with a silver buckle. $25 $90. Size: 8 Joan and david.Free shipping BOTH ways on joan and david wedges from our vast selection of styles. Fast delivery, and 24/7/365 real-person service with a smile. Click or call 800-927-7671. Shop Joan And David Shoes at Bloomingdales.com. Free Shipping and Free Returns available, or buy online and pick up in store! GET YOUR ORDER TODAY with Curbside or In-Store Pickup, or Same Day Delivery.JOAN AND DAVID BROWN EMBOSSED CROC BELT BAG VINTAGE NEW. $130.00. $7.00 shipping. or Best Offer. Joan & David Brown Tortoise Shell Nylon Shopper Medium . $28.00. the original Joan and David had fabulous shoes, however they went bankrupt. I still own several pairs from golly 20 years ago, and a couple I still wear. Circa Joan and David is the new Joan and David, however, not the same quality.Check out our joan and david shoes for women selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our shops.Just In. Joan And David Circa Calypso Ankle Wrap Wedges Multi Brown/cream Size 9. $42. Size: 9 Joan & David. walgray. Circa Joan & David Calypso Espadrille Wedge Ankle Tie Multicolor. $20. Size: 8 Joan & David. gypsiesandscots.SHOP NOW Joan & David captures timeless fashion for the individual who values quality and style. View our new line of totes, bags, and backpacks! SHOP NOW Brand Timeline What started with a simple oxford, has evolved into a philosophy that holds true today—to design for women who run through airports. Circa Joan And David Heels Womens 7M Lindenn Slip On Pointed Pumps Brown Leather. $22.49. Was: $24.99. $6.99 shipping. or Best Offer. SPONSORED.Joan & David 90s Fabulous Equestrian Double Buckle Brown Leather Belt M. $59. Size: OS Joan & David. boutiquebypj. 16. Vintage Joan and David Leather Belt Womens Medium Brown Black Leather Wide. $30. Size: M Joan & David. secondsister. Just In. Circa Joan and David CJ Delfina Open Toe Platform Wedge Medium Brown Leather. NWT. $54. Size: 7.5 Circa Joan & David. hoppaquin. Circa Joan David Wedge Heels Open Toe Closed Heel Buckle Strap Black Womens 7.5M. $32. Size: 7.5 Circa Joan & David.NWT Joan and David 22” convertible weekender duffle/backpack. NWT. $137 $228. Size: OS Joan & David. mpauley5. Joan & David black leather shoulder bag made in Italy. $36. Size: OS Joan & David. caligirl_closet.Just In. Circa Joan and David CJ Delfina Open Toe Platform Wedge Medium Brown Leather. NWT. $54. Size: 7.5 Circa Joan & David. hoppaquin. Circa Joan David Wedge Heels Open Toe Closed Heel Buckle Strap Black Womens 7.5M. $32. Size: 7.5 Circa Joan & David..